Unlocking Your Inner Mentor with Dr. Deborah Heiser

Mentorship is a natural developmental milestone that emerges in midlife as part of generativity – our biological drive to care for others and leave a legacy. Developmental psychologist Dr. Deborah Heiser explains why we feel compelled to write books, start podcasts, and volunteer as we accumulate expertise.

• Generativity is an emotional life stage that includes mentoring, philanthropy, and volunteering
• When we don't engage in mentorship, it's like "burning down libraries" of valuable knowledge
• True mentorship never involves money – it's about giving without expectation of return
• Look for mentorship opportunities in everyday connections with people around you
• The most effective mentoring often happens in informal settings like lunches and conferences
• Everyone is both a mentor and mentee in different contexts – we all have unique expertise
• Gratitude flows naturally between mentors and mentees as both benefit from the relationship
• Family traditions, recipes, and community involvement are all forms of mentorship
• Modern mentoring includes podcasts, books, and other content that shares wisdom broadly

Visit mentorproject.org for free mentoring opportunities for students from top 1% experts globally. Connect with Dr. Deborah Heiser on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube to learn more about the power of mentorship.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome and Introduction
• 1:15 Understanding Generativity and Mentorship
• 3:52 The Developmental Psychology of Giving Back
• 7:15 How to Connect and Become a Mentor
• 14:08 The Magic of Meaningful Connections
• 19:33 Gratitude in Mentorship Relationships
• 26:20 Resources and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:11

Hello and welcome back to the next episode of Overcome Yourself, the podcast. As you know, my name is Nicole and I'm very excited to be here today with Debra. Now Debra is going to talk to us super interesting. What she said was mentorship and aging, how they're related, so I'm super excited to hear about that. So take it away, debra, and let us know a little bit about who you are and who you help, and what that means.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Thank you for having me on. I'm Debra Heiser, I'm an applied developmental psychologist and I study aging, and most people don't know the link between aging and mentorship. But mentorship is something that we're built to do by the time we hit midlife. But mentorship is something that we're built to do by the time we hit midlife, and so it's a life stage. It's an emotional life stage that we hit, just like walking and talking, and it's called generativity, and within generativity is mentoring, philanthropy and volunteering. So it's caring for others without expecting anything in return.

Speaker 2: 1:12

It's a way that we leave a legacy. It's how we make meaning of all of those boxes we've checked in all of our earlier years and when we hit a level where we feel like we have some kind of expertise, we want to give it back. So people will do things like start to write books, do podcasts. They'll have an itch to give back some way. They'll start to volunteer in midlife and people aren't putting it together. But that's really an amazing thing that we have all this power within midlifers to be able to be resources for individuals in work and in the home life that is super interesting.

Speaker 1: 1:55

I had not thought of that, but it makes a lot of sense. And when you're looking at, I guess, like developmental levels, right, the top level, self-actualization, that's where we go beyond ourselves and now we're worried about others, so I think that's really interesting and how we're getting to a point because that we can do that, I guess. Um, because I remember in psychology learning that actually our psychology teacher was like this is self-actualization. Very few people get here, so don't even worry about it, okay. So tell me about that. Talk to me about about that.

Speaker 2: 2:33

So, basically, most people don't focus. They focus on our physical journey. And so when you talk about how we can, you know, get to the feeling of being self actualized, there aren't very many concrete examples. You know, people say, well, you're just, you know, feeling like you should put things out into the world. Or you're feeling like you know, when you reflect, things are good should put things out into the world. Or you're feeling like, you know, when you reflect, things are good. But really there are concrete things, and part of that is that we get to a feeling, the beginning.

Speaker 2: 3:02

Part of that is generativity, where we're starting to say, hey, I am not just taking things in, I now have enough to be able to give out. It's where we take a look around. We say who am I in the world? And this is in the workplace, this is a home, this is how religions are passed down for centuries. You know, this is how recipes, family traditions, holidays, all of those things that we take for granted but those weren't things that popped out of a box Every holiday you don't say, oh, what are we going to do this year? There's a whole sort of storyline that we follow that corresponds with our family. Well, at work we have the same thing. It's not like you go in every day and you're like huh, what's going to happen today? We have storylines, and those who are coming before us or who are even laterally are helping us to navigate that. So generativity, though, is if we do not engage in that, it's like we're burning down libraries.

Speaker 2: 4:02

It would be like you wake up one day and your family traditions aren't there, or all of the knowledge and work If you see, in some cases, when they exit top leadership or middle management, it takes a lot of time to regrow that expertise. So you know, we've been able to see that that is a very important thing and that all comes from a developmental milestone that we reach in midlife.

Speaker 1: 4:31

That is. That's amazing and it's so interesting because what it makes me think of is my mom died when I was one and a half, and so I grew up with with her grandparents. My great grandparents were the ones who raised me, and so as I got older, people would say, oh, you have such an old soul, right? I guess I learned a lot, um in in when I was little, you know, through those things, um, but then reaching out and starting to write my book and starting a podcast and like I never connected those things as well. I guess I did, but I don't know. Like I guess I was consciously aware of both of those things, but I guess I hadn't made the bridge. That's super interesting. So can you talk to me about how someone can do this? Like, if they're there and they're like you know what? I have this itch. I want to get out there, I want to help others, I want to spread this message. Can you tell me how can they start doing that?

Speaker 2: 5:34

So you know the way that you can get involved and first of all, like that, you're saying, oh, I didn't put that together, nobody does. It's just like if you see a baby walk, they don't say, oh, I took a step, should I be doing that? What should I be doing? You know, we, we just do these things.

Speaker 2: 5:47

And the issue is that we don't put words to some of the things that we're doing, so we aren't sure if we're doing what we should be doing. It's where we if you can have that word it validates what you're doing. Oh, I'm doing that midlife stage I'm supposed to be doing. So what I tell people to do is really to try to enhance your connections. If you just look to your left or you look to your right, you already have every you know almost everyone that you need. You build that out and we should be having what would look like a spider web of our connections. Everyone has a different expertise than you, even if they've lived with you. So your great grandparents. They had the traditions of the family to pass to you. You didn't have those in terms of if you're at work, it may not be your boss, it may be somebody in another department or someone lateral to you. You may be a hardware engineer and you look and say, oh, I need a software engineer to help me with this. It could be someone with a different level of expertise, but not hierarchically above you. So I tell people if you look around above you. So I tell people, if you look around, you could usually say I have expertise that I can give to someone. Now I might do a podcast, I might write a book, I might write a blog. I might reach out to people that I see need my help.

Speaker 2: 7:07

Some people go and they volunteer for score, they become a mentor somewhere. They make it available to others that they can help. They get involved in their community, organizations, rotary, religion, whatever it is. That's the first place that you can go. The second thing that people can do is that they can say you know what? I wanna try new things. I'd like to tap into the resources around me, because we're always doing both at the same time, and that's where we say who's around me and who knows something, who's done something interesting that I might want to try, or do that I don't know how to navigate, and then you can reach out to them. So, again, get connected in all those same places I talked about before, because that's going to help you as well.

Speaker 2: 7:53

And at work, the things that are the most prolific for giving us the ability to connect with others and receive their wisdom is when we go to things like lunches, those online Zoom things that people will say I don't know if I want to go to that conferences, retreats, any of those things. Most of those are free, especially if you have workplace lunches, because you look around and there's no feeling of vulnerability. You can express it. You trust the people, so you might be able to say hey Jim, fellow judge in the court system, I haven't tried a case like that, but you have. Can you tell me how you manage that? It's very different than going into the workplace in a formal setting and saying I don't know what I'm doing. So by getting yourself connected informally and seeing everyone out there as a potential resource for you, or that you are a resource. It makes you feel more powerful and it makes you see others as more powerful. They're just not. You know people and so think of the connections as the most powerful resource that you have.

Speaker 1: 9:08

That's great advice. Like that is such a big deal. Um hosting events. Like when I started my podcast, I was like, man, I've met some great people. What if I got them all together and they all taught what they were an expert in? And people came and watched and we did that, and I've hosted three summits since then, and so I was able to display their expertise helping people for free Right, because that's one of my big things. When I got started in the online world, I needed free resources. I didn't have. I had time to invest, but I didn't have money to invest, and so free resources are a big deal for me. But there's also the next step, right. So there's also when I started investing and I started buying into these little things, and so those kinds of things are a big deal for me, and so I brought them to the world through the summits. That's really cool.

Speaker 2: 10:02

Brilliant by the way You've been doing this naturally, and that's exactly the advice, and you just gave an illustration of how you can do that, and you made the great point that money is money is not involved in this. You know, and I always tell people, if people say that you're a, that they're a mentor and they're getting paid, they're not a mentor. Mentorship has no money attached to it, and so anytime you're giving out a free resource or that you're engaging with someone at work, you're probably engaging in lateral mentorship. Oh, I love that, and that's because you're engaging with others who are at your level, and we all are. You know, a grandma holds expertise that you know we don't have, but they're not our boss you know, I mean well, you know but that's the same everywhere.

Speaker 2: 10:55

And so when you hold a summit, everyone coming there is their own expert. There's nobody who's the boss. You're just getting people together to say, hey, network, which is a which can be a great step towards finding same mentorship. You can have a Rolodex that you make and I know that's an old fashioned term but a contact list that you might not need that mentorship today. It might not even be tomorrow, but three months later or a month later, you know, six months later, a year later, you may need just what that person has, and then you can tap into that so easily and say hey, just reaching out, I have a question for you. Can I pick your brain? And then off to the races. You go.

Speaker 1: 11:35

Yes, and bartering too. I've come into some opportunities where even my mentors I'd be like, hey, can we barter something? Like I need help with this and I can help you execute on something. And so, you know, I was able to make that connection and again, we invested time into each other To your point as well.

Speaker 1: 11:56

By the way, the other side of like conferences and stuff, I ended up going to a it's called Podfest, so it's about podcasting. Right, changed the trajectory of my podcast because I realized, wow, I about podcasting. Right, Change the trajectory of my podcast because I realized, wow, I'm not alone. Right, there's so many other people who are doing this, like they're, they're, they're here, like this is, this is real, like I. And then people would come up to me like, wow, you have so many episodes, and I'd be like I thought I was a mess. And you guys are coming up to me like telling me, oh, wow, you did such a good job and I'll be like, oh, cool.

Speaker 1: 12:31

And then the next time I went back, I got to go back as a speaker, um, and I was able to connect with, like, my podcast host. They gave us little pins, um. And then it's about the connections that you make with the other attendees right, because even with my summits, it's the connections that we made on the back end when we were marketing together, when we were talking, where we can message each other for advice and you know a lot of coaches are like you can't DM me for advice. But when you have friends in the industry and you can say, hey, I'm having this issue, I wanted to just brainstorm off you. Your friends will give you your five minutes, if you know, because you've created these connections and so like've created these connections and so like, don't abuse that. But there's magic that does happen at events like this that really propel you forward in ways you couldn't even have imagined.

Speaker 2: 13:20

It's so true. We often think of these things as well. What am I going to get out of it? The very minimum, you're going to get mentorship in one direction or the other and, like you mentioned, people who are lateral mentoring. It's often going back and forth. You'll be seeing people who will say I need this. Oh, I didn't even realize I needed that. You have this expertise. It's a natural way of interacting and it really can propel us forward in whatever our area of interest is to get to a new level. And again, there's no money involved. It's, it's just really wonderful.

Speaker 1: 13:56

Yes, yeah, it is amazing and those connections are everything.

Speaker 1: 14:02

Yeah, they really are, because the way that, the way that you get referred by those friends that you, you know, and it's, it's literally that like, it's even the connections, like not even connecting with the people that hosted the event, which is on a whole nother level, but just the other attendees um man, like like there's like fireworks going off in my brain because the way that you're talking about networking and connecting, it's like it's so simple, so simple and it's really.

Speaker 1: 14:30

I think the key is what you mentioned it doesn't have to be like this hard sell, like let's get on the phone right now, like no, we're going to be connected and then you're going to become part of my Rolodex. So I'm going to see you on Facebook and I'm going to comment and be like oh, wow, that's an awesome accomplishment that you had, Great. And it evolves naturally from that where I don't have to be like you want to get on the phone with me for 30 minutes so I can sell you my awesome, amazing thing. Like no, what if we were just like hey, I love what you do and I think we should be friends on Facebook? That's it. Like that's that's how it happened.

Speaker 2: 15:07

You're right. You know, networking can either be where you go out and you're trying to sell yourself to others or someone is selling themselves to you and that never feels great. But if you're going with the idea that I'm going to learn something about people and have the real idea of actually figuring out what they do and what their expertise is, idea of actually figuring out what they do and what their expertise is, that puts it at a different level, because then later you can connect in a mentorship level.

Speaker 2: 15:36

You know, that's where you know you.

Speaker 2: 15:38

If we deepen some of our connections or we even make some loose ones, you can always circle back to that person with question. But if you're going out and selling yourself, where someone else is selling themselves to you, it makes it hard to follow question. But if you're going out and selling yourself where someone else is selling themselves to you, it makes it hard to follow up. But if you just have the idea that I'm going to connect with people, it really does help, not only just with mentorship, but social isolation and all of the things that you know plague us when we feel like we are not connected in a way that matters with people, and so meaningful connections are really the most important part. So if you are going places, try to connect meaningfully with someone, not to say, what am I going to get from them superficially right now, but what is their expertise? Because maybe there is something in there and once you learn about them more over time, you'll see, wow, they have some kind of rich expertise that I'd love to tap into.

Speaker 1: 16:35

Yeah, Just this podcast, right, my goal is not selling anything. Like I don't, I'm not trying to get you on a phone call after this, like none of that. Like, I want to connect with people, I want to see who's out there, I want to hear your stories, I want to know what are you, what are you promoting? Like, what are you selling? Even, is it going to be helpful to my audience? Because I would love to be like hey, look, this is going to be helpful to you.

Speaker 1: 17:00

But in creating those connections, I'm not going to say that clients haven't popped up because they have. But it's not a hard sell, it's a oh wow, I didn't even realize you did this. I need help with this. Can you do this for me? Yeah, sure, right, um, and so I love these, these conversations, like, just just to be frank, right, um, because there's there's not that level of that, that salesy, oh, my god, are we gonna be coming after each other? You know, like, what are they trying to sell me? Like no, this is literally Like, I just want to hear your stories and how can you help my audience?

Speaker 2: 17:38

That's because you sell to people who aren't your friends and you help the people who are your friends, right? So you know that's. If you have a connection with somebody, they become, you know, in the friend zone. So you are doing what I call modern mentoring, because we didn't have podcasting when mentorship was first talked about. And so you everyone who's listening and feeling connected to you and what you're talking about and who is, you know, your audience, they're your mentees, because you are giving, you know, saying I have this need to give back and I'm going to do that. I'm going to give back expertise to people and even though you don't know them.

Speaker 2: 18:21

It's a weaker form of mentorship, but it still is. It's same with blog writing, with other things, because you are getting information and knowledge out there to others. So, but the main thing that you said was that when a person is selling, it doesn't feel good, but when you have a connection with somebody, it's, it's you're not. It's a different feel than if you're going to sell something. That's when you have the opportunity to say can you help me, can you give me advice, I would like some guidance, and that isn't something you pay for. You give that and when you have a connection or a friend, we're willingly offering that help. We all do it. We're built to do that. People want to help others, they want to be connected. So it takes some of that ick away, which is that sales, salesy kind of feeling that we don't tend to like.

Speaker 1: 19:14

Yeah Well, as someone who's been in sales for a long time, there's a big difference between buying something and being sold something.

Speaker 2: 19:24

Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1: 19:26

And I want my customers or my clients to buy things from me, not to feel like, oh my God, she just sold me on this junk that I don't need, yes, yeah. So I think that that's a and that's a big shift that's happening, I think, in the industry as a whole, because people are just sick and tired of of these big promises that just don't pan out like you know, because we've all been through it, like, and we're being honest, you know, like there's, there's been a lot of stuff that's happened out there, um, and so I think that, as our industry, like just a refresher of of this, of of starting with mentorship, of you know, starting with mentorship, of you know, starting with value, like I think this is such a big deal. You mentioned that you have a book, speaking of which I actually have mine. It's coming out soon, so can you tell us a little bit about your book? And that's such a great connection that you get to have with your clients too, right, because now you get to hang out with them.

Speaker 1: 20:22

Oh, what I was going to say is that parasocial relationship that we're building when they read our books. When you read your, you know your mentor's book, when you listen to their podcast like you're building a relationship with them. I might not know you, but you probably know a lot about me if you're listening Exactly.

Speaker 2: 20:41

But then when people reach out, there is that already little bit of connection that's there. There's something to build on that. It's not just a cold connection out of nowhere. So you already know that there's some common ground there. Wanted to give a real definition of mentorship, where it came from and why we do it, because there's so much out there that is not correct. I always say, you know, it's kind of a term that was hijacked by corporate America and it's not the real way that mentorship is. So this book gives real life examples. It makes things concrete that you know people talk about and say, oh, you can't reach a certain stage in your life. It shows exactly who and how in many different formats that it can occur and action, informal, approachable way. And, just for those who listen to podcasts, it is available in audio books. So that's another bonus which I I really do lean on audio books pretty much so hopefully that's amazing.

Speaker 2: 21:57

Yeah, so it's the mentorship and you can get it anywhere you get books, and you can get it anywhere you get books.

Speaker 1: 22:03

Amazing. All the links, by the way, guys are going to be down, available down below in the, in the comments, no, in the show notes. But I want to ask you what part like before we sign off here. What part does gratitude?

Speaker 2: 22:24

play in this mentorship role. I think that everyone who's a mentor or a mentee and acknowledges it is grateful for both. I am grateful for, and everyone I talk to is grateful for, their mentors because they've changed their lives. Everyone is grateful for their mentees because if you sit and you have everything bottled up inside of you and you don't get to let it out, it's like you didn't exist. So every mentee out there is carrying a piece of the mentor in them. So mentors and mentees are both truly grateful for each one of them. So, honestly, I urge everyone to really get as many labels of mentor and mentee on people around you, because it's going to allow you to feel that gratitude.

Speaker 1: 23:10

How can I be a mentor in my community, like assuming, if I didn't have my book for the listeners? Can you give me some examples, like immediate examples, like, for example, the first thing I think is in my family. So can you give me an example of how we could do that?

Speaker 2: 23:28

So first you have to have something that you're looking for right In your family. I can turn to I'll tell you a mentorship, and the person isn't even there. Every Thanksgiving I get out my grandmother's recipe cards that are on little three by five index cards are kind of like brownish yellow at this point, but they're in her handwriting and I make the meal complete as she had it down every dish. That is mentorship. I am taking her knowledge and passing it down. My kids expect that meal. It is something that will go on with them. So we don't often think of that as mentorship. But go back into your family. If you are at home and say what traditions do I value? I want to make sure that I'm passing those on. Not only are you allowing your loved ones to live on, but you are making another holiday tradition easy, like everyone can do that and everyone does do that.

Speaker 2: 24:24

If you're doing something in your community and you're looking to make a shift, a lot of times people say I want a career shift or I want to do something new. I have more bandwidth, I want to engage in a different way. Well, get involved in your community. There are so many free things you can join like Rotary Club. Most people don't even remember that, but it's been around like more than a hundred years, I think. All of the religious institutions, any kind of you know, local food bank, pantry, whatever it is that you want get involved, because the individuals there are already in a giving mindset and they are going to be able to help you with whatever your idea is and they won't be expecting to get paid for it. They're really already in that generative mindset.

Speaker 1: 25:14

Something that just popped into my head was like little league, right, like being like the the captain of the little league team or the coach of the little league team, or the captain of the little league team or the coach of the little league team or you know, volunteering to be the dance mom in my like. Weirdly enough, I'm not a mom, but I've been a dance mom. I worked for someone and I ended up getting to be a dance mom. But you get to be backstage. The parents that you meet, like you would never know, you never know whose kid is going to be like in your kids class and, um, how you can provide a service and how that connection you know can can really help you. Like not not because you're going in there to like use, ah, I want to use them, but um, just, it just happens naturally, like you said, like if you're just there, want to be helpful, like you're fully focused on what's going on, it just happens naturally. And okay, I don't know, that was just a random thought I had.

Speaker 2: 26:11

So look to your left and look to your right, there's a mentor or mentee waiting to be around you.

Speaker 1: 26:19

I love that. Okay, so if we want you to be our mentor, how can we follow you on social media?

Speaker 2: 26:27

You can connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find me and some of the things that I have on Instagram and on TikTok and on YouTube, and you can also go to mentorprojectorg. We give free mentoring to students globally from top 1% experts, so go there if you're looking for a mentor and you're a student.

Speaker 1: 26:50

Oh, that's amazing. Like student all the way through college, or like high school Graduates, any student Through graduate school Amazing, that is fantastic. That is a great resource. Thank you so much for sharing that, and don't forget to also check out her book, which all of these links that she mentioned are going to be down in the show notes Now, before we sign off, we want to know what is that like the greatest tip that you give your clients, that one tip that gives them the biggest aha moment?

Speaker 2: 27:20

That everyone is a mentor and that you are an expert in something, even if you don't believe it. If you think that you're a novice at something, you're an expert in something else. So just know that you are a mentor.

Speaker 1: 27:34

Even if it's to the little kid inside of you, like your inner child. Maybe you just got to start mentoring them first.

Speaker 2: 27:42

Mentor yourself first. But yeah, but everyone is a mentor. I mean, look, you're a mentor, every person that is listening to you is your mentee, and people often don't know the power they hold. Everyone has power.

Speaker 1: 27:57

I did not realize that I was a mentor, so I have learned. I've learned a lot today. This conversation has been amazing, so thank you so much. Um, all right, well, we will catch you guys next time on the next episode of overcome yourself, the podcast. Bye, thanks for being here.