Animal-Based Personality Types That Make Communication Click with Eric Gee

We talk with author and coach Eric Gee about an animal-based personality system that explains why the same message lands with one person and misses completely with another. We break down four personality packs, how core values drive behavior, and how to use type as an anchor for better relationships, leadership, and communication. 

• why Eric builds a new personality typing method from years of testing and coaching 
• “become the test” as a way to move past cookie-cutter results 
• using personality to sell, teach, and lead without forcing one style on everyone 
• the four packs and their core values: Gatherers, Hunters, Shamans, Smiths 
• why safety and security clashes with visceral excitement in everyday life 
• the cookie jar example that shows how rules sound different by type 
• Gatherer differences between duty-oriented and family-oriented styles 
• finding your anchor first before trying on other skills 

Make sure that you check him out on social media, grab his book, listen to his other podcast episodes. There’s a test you can take on my website, utopiaproject.com, and you can find me on Instagram at the power of personality.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Hello there, everyone, and welcome back to the next episode of Overcome Yourself the Podcast. As you know, my name is Nicole, and today I'm so excited to be here with Eric G. And so Eric has developed a personality test. I'm super excited to hear about it because I know I've been taking personality tests since I was like in high school, and we did the star method, I think it was, and they told me I was a blue dolphin. Um, you know, and so like I've been delving into uh personality stuff for a really long time. So I'm so excited to have you here with us today, Eric. But please, before we get into all that, take it away and let us know a little bit about who you are and who you help.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

You know, I'm an author and a life coach, or I say life and writing coach, um, because I kind of do both because I feel like they're both interconnected. Um, and I like myself, like or like yourself, like I got started at a very early age, you know, in high school, I was taking a lot of personality tests. You know, my the reason I was doing it, I don't know if it's the same for you, but I was feeling a little like a weirdo because you know, I was very different than my fellow classmates. And I'm not different in like a totally like off-the-wall way. I just, you know, I didn't always I didn't always connect with the values that they had, right? Or that the values that you are amongst your people here.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

We totally get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Yes, you know how it feels, right? Where you're like, oh, like I don't know. I I mean grades are great, but you know, like uh there's gotta be something more, right? And so I read a lot of personality books, took a lot of tests, uh, studied a lot of that kind of thing. And it wasn't until I started my own education company. So I own an education company for about 10 years, had about maybe a thousand students a year. So there was a lot of, I guess you could say, test subjects, for lack of a better term, where I was able to test um a new kind of personality typing methodology that I evolved from the ones that I had studied. And that's kind of where I developed it and I was able to write a book on it, and I published it last year. Um, and that's kind of where I am at right now, where I'm trying to like spread the word and let people know about kind of a new thing. It's funny that you said blue dolphin because I was I felt like mine was super original because I was using animal

Building A New Personality Test

SPEAKER_00 2:16

types, but I know, of course, there's all these spiritual spirit animal tests that you find on BuzzFeed, but that is one of the differences of my tests is that I didn't I use animal personality types to help people remember. Um, and there's a lot of differences, but um, I can go over those a little later. But that's kind of where I am right now is I'm a published author who also does a bit of life and writing coaching on the side.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

That is awesome. Um, I actually took that, I remember taking that in when I was in JR OTC in high school. So fun fact. Um, and so it was like like, you know, like it felt like a very official thing where they they made us fill this out. So I don't know if that's something that is used, you know, across or if there was just a random test that you know one of our teachers found. Um, but yes, tell us like like just let's dive in. So talk to us about the personality types. I'm assuming that's related to your book as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Yeah, you know, the book is basically and it's right over my right shoulder. This is my right shoulder right there. And it's a great orange book, and it's basically about becoming the test. Because I know a lot of personality books are like they have the test and beginning the book, and then the rest of the book is filled with prescriptions. But my feeling was always what if the test is wrong, right? It's a cookie cutter, just like test like 70 questions or whatever for every single person. Um, doesn't seem to make total sense that it's gonna be particularly accurate. So I wrote a book that kind of goes over my entire methodology so that it can help you become the test. So it basically teaches you, oh, okay, like this is how you distinguish between this person and this person. Um, and also in a very fun way, I just want to say it's not super boring or super wonky. Like, I use a lot of pop culture references. I might use a lot of jokes, a lot of personal stories, a lot of anecdotes to help people understand because I feel like we all have like all this memory and personal intuition inside of ourselves. Like we met thousands of people in our lives. So my book is a way to help you connect with that so that when you're reading it, you're like, oh, no wonder why my dad was like this, or my mom was like this, and we don't get along, or maybe we do get along, or maybe I get along better with my dad or my mom based on these kinds of things. I want people to read in and be able to understand the world around them better, versus it's not some new world that people are going to be discovering, it's just a new way of looking at the world or their current world. Um, and so that's kind of my book in a nutshell. Um, it breaks people down into four different personality packs. I call them packs because, of course, I use animal personality types, and within those four personality packs are four different animal personality types. Of course, four times four makes 16. So there are 16 personality types combined.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Amazing. And I want to point out for the audience that like there was one personality thing that I studied, and the way it broke it down, it it helped us understand, like you said, different personality types. And even in business, right? Because you know, a lot of times we're taught like, you know, hard sell, hard sell, hard sell. But in this particular personality test, it showed that only 15% of the population is wired like that, right? Because the and then there's 85% of the population that's wired a different way. And so if you're in sales and you're talking to the 85%, but you're talking to them like the 15%, nothing's gonna happen because you're not working with the personalities. So when we're talking about these personality types, not only is it gonna help us in our personal lives with the people around us and understanding, oh, I could talk

Become The Test Not The Result

SPEAKER_01 5:46

to my kid like this, and it'll help them understand better, it'll help them learn these things better, but also in our business lives, these things can help us really talk to our clients, really see where they are and talk to them at that level so that they they're they're vibing with you, right? Because you want to be with a certain personality type or they works particularly well for your product, you want to know that. Um, so I just say that because I really want you to listen in to what Eric's gonna be talking about, because this is gonna be super relevant to relationships all around you, especially if you're in sales. All right, so Eric, take it away. Tell us a little bit more. Am I am I on the money here with what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Yeah, no, exactly. Like, especially, you know, when we work in teams too. So not only the people, your clients, but also your coworkers and your team members, right? Like everyone's gonna be motivated by different things. And if you're a team leader and you think that you're gonna be able to motivate um your team members, but this the with the same way or the same reasons that motivate you, you you're gonna be mistaken oftentimes. So I think that's a good way to understand productivity as well. Um, and especially relationships, of course. Like, I own that education company, I had about 50 or 60 teachers that worked for me. And the ones that got it the quickest, because I taught this to all of them because I wanted to them to work with their individual students in this manner. Because, like you said, like same with dealing with clients, right? Like there might be like 15% of students might connect with this kind of teaching style, but that means that 85% are not going to connect with that, right? And since we were dealing with one-on-one tutoring, then I expected my teachers to do that, right? I expected them to adjust because you only got one student. Um, and the ones that got it the best were the ones that were parents because they started to see, like they didn't, they knew nothing about personality typing, but they started going, wait a minute. No wonder why I hate my son. Or not hate, but like I no wonder why he pisses me off sometimes, you know, right? Yes, right. They all say the same thing. Like, I love my children equally, but yeah, sure, I sure like some more than others, right? They do play favorites and they started realizing, oh, it's because this one is more similar to me. Maybe not exactly the same, but they're a little bit more similar to me. Our communication styles are similar. So, you know, we're gonna get along better, where my son or daughter, this other one, yeah, we're not, we don't really always see on the same page. And so parents started realizing too, like, oh, you know, like my kids are not gonna be exactly like me. You know, they might be similar to me, but they're not gonna be exactly like me. And I can't deal with in the same way that would motivate me. Um, and I tell parents that too, and it's funny because they sometimes expect the kids to be like them, but then I always ask, Were you are you exactly like your parents? And they're like, No, my parents ruined me or they they they screwed me up. And I'm like, well, then why would you expect your kids to be exactly like you if you know you're not exactly like your parents, right? So um I use that as an example because obviously we all have some kind of relationship, like familial relationship, and it's very one easy to connect. So um, as you had mentioned before, sorry, I'm going by quite long-winded here, but you had mentioned like the in sales, like 15% of people go with a hard sell. Um, I think in general, I'd mentioned four personality packs, and one of the personality packs makes up about half the population. So if you can imagine half the population fitting into a certain kind of value system, you can imagine that that value system gets kind of pushed on the other 50%, right? Because half of them like that and see people who are similar to them, and they're like, okay, well, clearly this must be the right way to do things because there's a lot of us who feel the same way. And unfortunately, that gets pushed on the other 50% of people who have varying degrees of value systems. So that's another example of how like knowing your personality can help you fit into the world better in the sense knowing that you're not, there's nothing wrong with you, even though you may be different than what everyone's telling you.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Yeah, like if you are an accountant and you have a very accountant-like personality, you're just calm, cool, you like numbers, and you live in a family of like race car drivers, just to kind of give, like, you know, like some real life examples, like you're gonna feel wrong. You're gonna be like, I'm not motivated by being in first place. I like I want to know, you

Using Type In Sales And Teams

SPEAKER_01 9:51

know, like the speed down to the second because I want to analyze the math versus like I just want to win. And so we have those, you know, clashes. But can you tell us a little bit more about what you know though, maybe those groups are so the audience can get because you know, I I get where you're coming from, but I want to make sure the audience is understanding like what does this look like in real life? Like, what does this all mean? Because it's kind of up in the air right now, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yeah, no, I I love that you use that dichotomy because that's the most common dichotomy between not necessarily the race car driver and the counter, but those two personality packs, I would say. So the one that I mentioned makes up half the population. I call them gatherers because as you know, they're all based on what we need, we used to need in medieval society, right? So, what do you need the most of? We probably need the most gatherers, right? People to gather the harvest, protect this the town, like make sure everything is organized and structured. And that's pretty much what we have in our society. We have half the population that value safety and security, and they're the type, the accountant type. They're clearly not the race car driver type, right? They're the accountant that says, hey, like I might not necessarily be the flashiest, but as a husband or wife or spouse or whatever, like I'm going to keep the home. You know, I'm gonna make sure we have enough toilet paper, you know, I'm gonna make sure that things go on time, and I'm gonna be the responsible one, at least in their mind. Doesn't mean that others aren't responsible, but I think in the gatherer's mind, that's what they take pride in, so they view themselves that way. Um the second most populous pack, I call them the hunters, because of course, back in medieval times we needed hunters too, or I should say, even pre-medieval times, we needed hunters as part of the village. The only reason why there's less hunters, because they make up about a third of the population, is because hunting is kind of dangerous. So hunters used to die. Um nowadays we don't hunt as much, but there are definitely jobs that require the same things that would uh hunt hunting would require, right? The ability to think on the fly, to be spontaneous, to take chances, you know, to be very um focused and very specific with the tools that you use. Um and that makes about a third of the population. So that would be the equivalent to the race car driver, right? Race car drivers might not be the most structured, they might not, they might have a training schedule, but it's probably given to them by someone else. Um but in their minds, they like they adjust on the fly. Obviously, clearly, you have to be able to adjust when you're in the middle of a race, whether you're a firefighter, um, whether you are a SWAT team member, whether you're a pilot, all those kinds of jobs that take movement and fluidity in the moment would fall into the hunter pack. So that's like if I if you they make about a third of the population. So combined with the gathers, the hunters and gathers make about 85% of the population. And so that's why that was like the most common dichotomy that you said. You're like, yeah, like if you get this and this, because that's the one that we see the most of. Um, and hunters, as opposed to gathers that value safety and security, hunters' core value is visceral excitement. So you can imagine that conflict, right? Where a hunter might be like, yeah, I love roller coasters because I get thrown around and it makes me feel like I'm gonna die. You know, it's so exciting, you know. Where gatherers, like, wait a minute, like I do not want to I value safety and security. I want to feel comfortable. There's no way that I want to get thrown around. Like, why would I want to do that?

Four Packs And Core Values

SPEAKER_00 13:06

So just that conflict alone, there's there's gonna be a bit of a clash there.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

I love it. Okay, so that's 85%. That's two of them. What's the other two then?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

So the other two, I call them the weirdo types. I say that lovingly. I'm I'm one of those packs, so you know, but they are a little different, right? Because they combined, they make up only like 15 to 16 percent of the population. So each one makes about, let's say, eight percent. Um, they're the shamans and the smiths. So I think I mentioned before I divide people based on their core value system. Um, so if hunt uh gatherers value safety and security, hunters value visceral excitement, right? Like to see everything, taste everything, hear everything. Then shamans, they value self-knowledge. That is their core value. Everything they do is predicated on learning more about themselves or learning more about the people around them. And then Smiths value information, and that's a key difference, right? Like, so they might not necessarily know that much about the people around them or care that much about the people around them, but they will definitely care about knowing the world around them. So, you know, I have a friend who's a Smith and he's like, No, I don't watch stories. I'm like, really? How do you learn about people? Like, stories are a great way to learn about like how we live and different types of people. And he's like, Oh, I just I guess I just don't really care about that. He's like, I'm like, what's the last thing you watch? He's like, Well, I watched this documentary on dinosaurs that I really love. I'm like, oh, okay, like, like that's the exact difference, right? He's like, Oh, yeah, it was interesting. Did you know that the Velociraptor and he went on a tangent about this new animal or this new dinosaur? And I was like, okay, that's great. Um, I myself am not a Smith, so I'm not that interested. But those are the two packs that are kind of like the minority packs, and they may seem a little different from the outside.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And you can see how it would be really different talking to a race car driver, someone who's a hunter versus someone who's a gatherer. Maybe I I also think maybe like nurses and teachers would fall under this category as well of the gatherers, right? Because they gather people, they gather society, they gather resources, they gather um, you know, people to help other people, right? And so, yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And it's so important to understand because if you sit down with someone and you talk to them like you would talk to a hunter and they're a gatherer, like you said with the roller coaster, it's not gonna click for them. You can't you're you're not gonna be able to like talk your way into it if you are focused on you know, like being number one and getting all this money and being first and like staying up all night and hustle culture and all this stuff. If you're talking to a gatherer, that's like the roller coaster. They're like, no, that's not not at all, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:35

They want the nine, they want the nine of five. They want the like, oh yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

If you talk to them about building security and making sure that everybody's good and being able to gather resources and have things so that they could help their community, now you're speaking their language, and you could be making the same point, but just in their perspective, so that it's it's easier for them to understand because both of those things could be true at the same time. It's just depending on our perspective, which one of those things we're gonna find. And so I think the work they're doing is magnificently important. Um, so thank you for coming to share that with us.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Yeah, you know, it's funny that you that's the common dichotomy, right? And I love that you mentioned teachers, and yet a good instincts are perfectly correct. It's in teachers and nurses would fall under gatherers, more likely. That's why I said gatherer values tend to get pushed on to people just because they make up not only they make up half the population, but they probably make up about 85 to 90 percent of elementary school teachers. And I was specific to elementary school as you go up the ranks in terms of education, I won't say go up the ranks, but get older, it does change a little bit. But elementary school in particular definitely uh favors gatherer teachers, right? Because gathers make a safe space and you need a safe space in elementary school. Not that you don't need it elsewhere, but like when you're you know a kindergarten teacher, you know, they focus, think what they focus on. Okay, these are the rules, kids. Don't touch your classmates, you know, like respect their space. Like they they teach following the rules is more important, knowing the social structure is more important, really, than understanding, you know, the the laws of science, you know, when you're in kindergarten, right? And I think that does get pushed on a lot of kids, even though maybe not everyone is a gatherer. So I always like to remind people, like, yes, just remember, like I would always tell my teachers, if you have a hunter student, like let's say you're a gatherer parent. Sorry, you have a gather parent and you have a hunter child, and I always use this example, and you tell as a parent, you say, Hey, if you eat those cookies from that cookie jar, I'm gonna slap your hand. And I think the gatherer is thinking, I'm gonna tell them these are the rules, and I want them to respect me because I'm their authority because I'm the parent. So I'm telling them that I'm going to that extreme to let them know, no, I'm your parent. I do not want you doing that. A hunter doesn't read it that way. A hunter reads it as like, okay, what you're saying is I can have that cookie as long, but if I do, you're gonna slap me. And so they'll start thinking, hmm, is the slap worth, or is the the cookie worth the slap? That's their thought process, right? Because of course they're thinking tactically in the moment, right? So they're like, oh, is it worth it? Hmm. I mean, and the gatherer's parent is like, no, that's not the point. You're not supposed to be thinking that way. You're supposed to be thinking, no, I do not want you to do that. Respect me as a parent. But that's how hunters think, is they just think, let me bend the rules and push the boundaries of what I'm okay with, and maybe put myself in the best position. And who knows, they might take that cookie and then take the slap as well. So I think knowing that it's even that specific mentality is so different for each person, will help people understand and maybe uh motivate or work with the people that are closest to them better.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

That is that is such a good point, right? And the hunter, I feel like they would be into the adrenaline rush of can I take this cookie without being seen or yeah, that that's oh

The Cookie Jar Communication Gap

SPEAKER_01 19:44

yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Especially not being seen. Yeah, the funny, yeah, you're right. That's the best part. They'll be like, Yeah, also what you're saying is you're gonna challenge me and it's gonna be like, let me try to, you know, sneak this one. That'll be fun. And the gatherers, what? Like, how is that how is that fun to you? No, I'm saying rules, I do not want you to break them.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

They literally are hunting it, you know, like they're waiting when you're not there, boop. That's exactly it fits perfectly. And then so you said that within these, there are even more subtypes. So I guess within the gatherer, there's four different animals that you could fall into.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Yes, like and it's gonna get wonky really fast, but um, there are four animals, and I even split them up into two different groups, and then within those two groups, obviously there are two animals when each one, and they're a little different as well. So if gatherers value safety and security, they tend to get it by either doing their duty, like being very focused and duty-oriented, or being very family-oriented. And it doesn't mean that the family-oriented gatherers are not gonna care about their duty and vice versa. In fact, they'll care about it more so than other personality packs, but within the personality pack itself, some are gonna value family more, some are gonna value doing their duty. And I always use the example of to tell them apart is if you go to a parent-teacher conference and you're the student and you have gather parents, and the teacher says, Hey, you know what, your kid, they're they're not behaving themselves. They're they're not doing the right thing. The parents, the gather parents that value duty will almost always side with the teacher. They will be like, Hey, I'm gonna take my son or daughter home and I'm gonna tell them, like, I'm gonna take care of it. Don't trust me. Because in their mind, their duty is as a parent to to turn their kid into a fine, upstanding citizen, right? It doesn't mean they don't love their kid. They love their kid, but they're like, hey, I got a duty to make sure that they, you know, become a good person. Versus the family-oriented gatherers, they won't, it doesn't mean that they're gonna side with a kid or their kid, but they might fall on a sword for them. They might be like, oh, you know, it's my fault. I've been coming home from work late, and you know, I haven't been able to help them out as much as I should, you know, because they just cannot get over that protective side of themselves that wants to side with their kid and protect those that they love. And so I'm not saying one is better than the other, they're just different, right? Like those that have duty-falling parents um will always feel like their duty-falling parents, or gatherer parents, will be a little like strict, maybe structured and a bit rigid, but they're gonna appreciate that when they get older, because when they get older, those parents will also be like the parents who be like, well, you know, I'm gonna let my kids, they it's their life, they gotta take care of themselves. Like, I'm gonna stay out of their life. Versus the family-oriented gatherers, you're always gonna feel loved and smothered so that when you're older, they might get involved in your stuff a little more than they maybe should, or maybe you feel comfortable with. Yeah. So I'm just trying to think, those are examples that people can go listen and go, Oh my gosh, I know exactly what my mom is, or I know exactly what my dad is, if they fit into the gatherer pack.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, that is amazing. And I love those like real life examples because I I think people can really see themselves or in someone around them where they're like, Oh, I recognize that. Um, because it's very real, it's very raw. Like it's just like you know, stuff that happens to everybody, right? So um, that is amazing. So, um How can we learn more about this? Actually, you mentioned that you had an awesome gift for the audience. So can you tell us a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yeah, you know, there's a test you can take on my website. It's um the website's utopiaproject.com, but why o you like YouTube? So you, as in you, utopiaproject.com, um, there's an assessment there. You can take it, it's very quick, it takes about five minutes. I always say the disclaimer is that it's just a cookie cutter test. You know, I mean, I think it's I designed it and I obviously user tested it, and I think it's a good test, but I always say the best test is yourself. So you learn about

Duty Versus Family Inside Gatherers

SPEAKER_00 23:29

if you read the book and learn about the methodology, you can really become the test. But if you want to just test it out and see what animal type you get, just for fun, and and then you can read the description and see if it fits you, um, go ahead and take the test. It will be really quick. And uh, if you like it, then pursue it. And if you don't, if you the animal personality that you get doesn't totally fit you, read some of the other ones that are close and maybe those will fit you a little better.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

And the first time I took a personality test, the one that I mentioned, I was not happy with my result. I was like, this isn't me at all. But you didn't like the blue dolphin. No, I I don't know. I don't remember what the other ones were, but I was like, the dolphin. But as I grew up, I look back and I'm like, yeah, that's totally it was it fit me to a T, you know. Um, and so sometimes, you know, the answers maybe just reflect on it and see if there's something about yourself that maybe you're not appreciating because I wasn't appreciating those um those qualities in myself. And I was like, oh, I wish I had those other qualities. Um, and so you know, finding that gratitude helped me really like get in alignment. And I was like, oh, well, you know what? I am more like the dolphin than than I care to to admit, I guess. Um, but yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

I always tell people you know, I always tell people if you, you know, the best way and the most accurate way is just have someone that knows you really well take the test for you. Because sometimes we don't know ourselves or we don't know what's coming off ourselves as well as obviously the people around us. So have some have a friend take it for you.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

And it's not a black and white thing. The the other thing I wanted to mention, like you said, it's a hierarchy. And so just because one of them comes out on top doesn't mean you don't have uh, you know, the um the qualities of that other, it's maybe it's just second in line. And sometimes in certain situations, that one can come up. Um, so it's not, you know, it's not like you're stuck in this box, it's just an array of different things. All right. Um, and so how about so you mentioned your website and social media. How do we stay in touch with you on social media?

SPEAKER_00 25:30

I'm not the most uh I'm part of social media, um, but it's the power of personality. You can find me on Instagram at the power of personality, which is the name of my book. Um, where you know I go on podcasts such as this one, and you know, I kind of talk about the ideas and I'll I'll post occasional clips on there about whatever thing I'm talking about. Um, but yeah, the power of personality on Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Awesome. Um, all right, cool. And then before we sign off, final tip. What is like your best tip that you

Take The Assessment And Final Tip

SPEAKER_01 25:58

have for the audience today?

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Um knowing your personality type because it'll give find out your personality type because it'll find you'll find your anchor. Because it's important to know your anchor first, and then you can try out different other personality types and the different skills that go with those. But know yourself first so you don't lose yourself and know exactly who you are.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Well, I love that. And I love the idea of playing and the other personality types as well, you know, like how how hunter can I get?

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Yeah, you're an accountant. Sometimes you want to get sometimes people like to hunt on the side, right? As a vacation, you know, or yeah, like try out different things, but just uh especially the minority types like shamans and smiths, it's so important for them to know themselves first so they don't try to become someone else when they're you know trying out the different things.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

I love that. I love it so much. This has been an amazing talk. Thank you again um for being here because this is super valuable. Um, and make sure that you check him out on social media, grab his book, listen to his other podcast episodes, and we will catch you guys next time on the next episode of Overcome Yourself the Podcast. Thanks again.